2024 RTO Roundtable Series: Part 2 - with Lauren Hollows and Maree Thorne - Standard 1.3 to 1.4 All about Assessment

In this compelling continuation of our RTO Superhero Podcast series, we further dissect the intricacies of the proposed changes to the Standards for RTOs, slated for enforcement on January 1, 2025. Lauren Hollows of Aniwaya Education Services, alongside Angela Connell-Richards from Vivacity Coaching and Consulting, and Maree Thorne from Compliance Assist, dive deeper into the principles of assessment and rules of evidence within the new standards.

Our discussion begins with an exploration of the nuanced language changes within the principles of assessment and rules of evidence, contemplating the impact of these adjustments on fairness, reasonable adjustment, and reassessment. Angela initiates the conversation with insights into how these changes are poised to foster a more inclusive learning environment, aligning with additional clauses focused on disability, First Nations, and support services.

Maree offers a perspective on the significant shift of embedding the principles of assessment and rules of evidence directly within the standards, emphasizing the standards' increased prescriptiveness and the expectation for practical application of skills and knowledge in varied contexts.

As the dialogue unfolds, we consider how these changes place a renewed focus on the assessor's role, suggesting a potential shift towards greater responsibility in making individual assessment judgments. This discussion prompts a broader conversation about the necessity for RTOs to integrate trainers more closely into the design and feedback process of assessment tools, underscoring the importance of upskilling trainers to enhance their understanding of assessment principles.

This episode delves into the operational challenges RTOs may face, including aligning assessment tools with the diverse needs of their learner cohorts and ensuring compliance with the new standards. Through our exploration, we aim to provide RTO professionals with actionable advice and insights on preparing for the upcoming standards, from evidence collection to process adjustments, to better meet the needs of their learners and the new regulatory framework.

Join us for this enlightening discussion as we navigate the future of vocational education and training standards, offering a blend of expert analysis and practical guidance. Don't miss the next installment of our series for even more insights into adapting to the evolving landscape of RTO standards.

Transcript

Lauren Hollows: 0:00

Hey guys, this is Lauren Hollis for Aniwaya Education Services and I'm very fortunate to be continuing our series on assessment for the new RTO standards in our roundtable series with Angela from Vivacity and Maree from Compliance Assist. So, guys, we did briefly touch on in our last episode, 1.3, which was all about testing. I recommend that you guys go and watch that episode. It'll be linked here somewhere, like that. I'm interested to get into some of the language that they talk about in the principles of assessment rules of evidence, because the actual principles themselves haven't really changed. We've still got the same terms.

Lauren Hollows: 0:41

However, it's interesting to see the way that they've changed or, I guess, elaborated on what they are like, on how they've described it. So, for example, when we have things like, you know, fairness, taking into account learners' need, including reasonable adjustment and, where appropriate, enabling reassessment if necessary, I think that some of those like little changes there are quite interesting, particularly when we look at it across different environments, like when we look at it from a financial perspective. If we look at reassessment, as an example, in the cryos environment, that's often charged in a fee, you know. Is there some wiggle room there, like what happens when an RTO is not enabling assessment because of the financial needs of the learner. Does that meet in with the fairness and equity that we've got now very much built into these standards? So just I'd be interested to get your kind of initial thoughts on principles of assessment, rules of evidence and some of the specific language that has been brought into those. Angela, if you want to kick us off, Okay, thank you.

Angela Connell-Richards: 1:51

So when we look at this standard or this clause in particular, it's foundational in fostering an inclusive learning environment and I think it ties into some of the other standards that we have some new ones that we've got, which is now we've got disability, we've got First Nations that are also in there, and then we've also got some changes to support services and things like that. I think that's where this is going to tie in is with those other new clauses that we have. That's going to be the major change from my perspective, and much more focus on, you know, those rules of evidence and principal assessment and how they do, how you have adjusted your training and assessment back to what I said in the last episode about your learner cohort and who is defined within your training and assessment strategy. So I think it's more of a okay, how are we identifying our learners' needs and then adjusting that training and assessment to meet their needs? And I think those other clauses are going to come in that are around support services. So that's my perspective.

Maree Thorne: 3:03

Absolutely, Maree. My thoughts on it, Lauren, are the fact that this, in the previous version of the standard, the standard itself was, you know, simply conduct according to you know, these rules of evidence and principles of assessment this standard now actually is, and sorry, in the previous you know it was. Then you go to the guide to see what those you know a definition or examples of what those particular principles of assessment, rules of evidence you know actually are, or examples of this has now got the actual rules and principles of assessment, rules of evidence you know actually are examples of this. Has now got the actual rules and principles of assessment in the standard itself, and for me that is a fairly significant change. So it's actually specifying, you know.

Maree Thorne: 3:59

I look at 1.4a3 just as an example and it says you know, know, validity. So the principle of assessment validity is the assessments of skills and knowledge is integrated with practical application and would enable the learner to demonstrate these skills and knowledge in similar situations, situations Whoa, straight away. That one to me, is a bit very prescriptive in terms of there is an expectation of. You know that principle of assessment is really about, you know, integration of knowledge, integration of skills and application in a variety of contexts, et cetera. So now the actual principles of assessment are not just a heading of fairness, flexibility, validity, because these words are actually now in the standards themselves. So that would be what you know you're looking at if you were coming along to audit, not simply you know the information that was used as a guide. Does that make some sense?

Lauren Hollows: 5:12

Yeah, and what I'm hearing from both of you is that obviously, I mean, both of you have spent a lot of time digesting the new standards as a whole and I think that you know this standard. What I'm hearing from both of you is that kind of, with this standard, it's not so much the changes within the particular language of this standard we think that principles of assessment, rules of evidence, they are what they are, they're integral to our industry standards in terms of equity and well-being and a stronger focus on training and um, you know, a stronger focus on like contextualization and really thinking about and considering learners. That's probably more where this particular standard, so you know your, your policy as such, but a renewed focus for RTOs on do my tools really meet the needs of my cohort? Do we have processes that allow for that to occur? And then, when we then take that to the next point, how do RTOs?

Lauren Hollows: 6:21

You know, if I'm an RTO and I'm looking at all of this and I know I've got to be compliant with all of this from 1-1-25, what are some of the pieces of evidence that I need to start collecting? What are some of the process changes that I need to be making in order to account for that. What's your advice to RTOs who are looking at this and kind of going okay? What's your advice to RTOs who are looking at this and kind of going okay, but what does that practically mean for me in terms of my assessment tools and things like that?

Angela Connell-Richards: 6:51

One thing that I find very interesting within this. So if we look at 1.4b, assessors make individual assessment judgments that are justified based on the following rules of evidence it's more of a focus on the assessor now, not just the RTO.

Maree Thorne: 7:12

The assessment.

Angela Connell-Richards: 7:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think there's going to be a lot more responsibility on the assessors when it comes to these standards now, and I think that's really going to tie in with the workforce development plan and having that in place as well, and the responsibility of trainers and assessors when it comes to workforce development. This is actually saying now the assessors are responsible for the assessment judgments, which should have always been that way, but it's actually clarified now within the clause.

Maree Thorne: 7:53

And I think, Angela, that even goes to, goes to, you know, 1.4a that assessment is conducted in a way not that the assessment system itself, it's, it's that it is actually conducted in a way that is consistent with these principles, more on the assessor, on the actual process, on the practice of it, as opposed to the, the um, the tools, the, the um methods, etc.

Maree Thorne: 8:19

Yeah, and I think that I think that by putting the words, rather than just saying, is consistent way with, you know, with the principles of assessment, of fairness, of flexibility, I think that the standard is trying to actually really spell out the interpretation of fairness, the interpretation of flexibility, the interpretation of validity, you know, and reliability, obviously, to go. Well, you know, it's not a choose your own adventure as to what you think these principles mean. Here is what we mean by the principle of fairness, because otherwise, you know, because they put those words into a legislative standard as opposed to previously having it as the principles of assessment and the rules of evidence in the legislative standard. And then you have the what does you know? How are they interpreted in a guide? Now it's actually saying this is the interpretation of it, you know, don't come up with your own. Here's the one that we're giving you.

Angela Connell-Richards: 9:30

So I'm really interested in how ASQA will interpret this as well when you write the user guide.

Lauren Hollows: 9:36

Do you think that from? I mean it's one of the interesting components just from an operational perspective on this is how I mean there has been a separation over the years of compliance and trainers and what their duties are and what their responsibilities are. Do you think that in your interpretations?

Lauren Hollows: 9:53

of this one of the focuses for this year for RTOs does need to be looking at having processes where trainers can be more integrated into the design and feedback process and also potentially really an upskilling of trainers as well. To go back to, you know, helping trainers to really understand their units, to really understand, you know those, what the principles of assessment are and how that looks and what the rules of assessment, like what the rules of evidence are and how that looks.

Lauren Hollows: 10:23

I mean, in my opinion, I still think I mean, every year I do a series on the principles of assessment and the rules of evidence. It's because every year it continues to be an area where you know, trainers come to me and they go. You know, once one side goes, I don't really, I still really don't understand this and then the other side goes. I'm really frustrated because I, I know I have a responsibility on these tools, but I, our processes are such that I actually don't, I can, can't have any say in. So you know, how do you? You know, what advice do we give to RTOs and to trainers in those situations to kind of go, well, this is, this is kind of going to be a way that you're going to have to negotiate that and you've got the next, you know, 10 months to kind of really bring that in and make some bring that in and make some changes to your organizational. You know structure and you know culture as to how that's all going

Angela Connell-Richards: 11:23

Yeah, I've been teaching. Every year I deliver a workshop on assessment validation and explain the rules of evidence and principles of Assessment and it is an area where there is a lot of non-compliance has been historically. So it's not just trainers and assessors understanding, it's also the RTOs understanding how they work.

Angela Connell-Richards: 11:43

And the way I explain it is we have our unit of competency, then we have our rules of evidence and principle of assessment and they all layer over each other and we use the rules of evidence and principal of assessment to identify whether we're delivering the unit of competency to meet those requirements.

Angela Connell-Richards: 12:03

So it's really looking at the unit of competency, breaking down the performance criteria and saying in our assessment tool, are we valid, are we reliable, are we meeting the requirements of the rules of evidence and principal of assessment? And I think once people see it as it's an overlay it's not separate, it's an overlay of the performance criteria and the assessment conditions within the unit then they're able to get a better understanding. And that's how I explain it to trainers and assessors. And I think now, moving forward with the new and you can start doing this now but moving forward with the new clauses, trainers should be taking that into consideration while they're conducting assessment, training and assessment, and how are they applying that in their delivery of their training as well as conducting their assessments? And start thinking about how do the rules of evidence and principal assessment overlay and interlay into that unit of competency um, all right, yeah, no, I cannot disagree.

Maree Thorne: 13:09

But and I think it sort of takes a step back into the in our previous um session we were talking about that testing, um, and that sort of whole concept of you know, testing, you know, and I think that that sort of talks to it as well you've got to understand what the principles are, you've got to understand what the rules of evidence are, you've got to understand what the actual requirements, the training package are, in order that you can go. Well, is this going to work? Is this going to make sure that you know the evidence I collect is going to be? You know what I need it to be, or the you know it's being done in such a way that you know it's fair and it's equitable and it's flexible and all the rest of it. And can I be flexible? And I think that you know that whole testing process is really is so critical to this process.

Maree Thorne: 14:03

Um, and you know the number of times, to be honest, I've picked up an assessment at an RTO and thought I haven't got the first clue what it is I'm supposed to be doing. Um, oh, you know, as a learner. So you know, put my, I like to put my learners you know shoes on and go. Well, I can't work out what I'm. What am I supposed to be doing? Or how on earth am I going to do that, or um, and then we put my assessor's hat on and go. I can't figure it out either.

Angela Connell-Richards: 14:32

I can't conduct it.

Maree Thorne: 14:34

Yeah, so how on earth can I conduct it? And then, you know, lauren, the point that you were making is that business about? You know, we've tested these tools, because, you know, 1.3 is about testing the tools, and it specifically says tools. And then we come down to 1.4, where we're actually talking about conducting the assessment. And you know, again, this is one of the things that comes up repeatedly.

Maree Thorne: 15:00

You know the assessor, who you go well, hang on a minute, but this tool says this, but you've done something completely different. Oh yeah, that didn't work. You know I couldn't get that to work, or you know they couldn't understand whatever. So, so, making that consistency between them as well, and assessors understanding that you're going to be conducting this, can you? Um, you know, you know you learn it's, you know, can you actually do this? Because, if not, we need to step back to 1.3 again, um, and go, well, hey, this doesn't work, it doesn't achieve what I need it to achieve, but you're not authorized to just go ahead and just, you know, um, do you choose your own adventure and do it yourself? Um, so so, yeah, I, I think that you know, again, this is an area that has always been problematic, and I'm not sure how much it's improving, to be honest, yes, it will be very interesting to see how we're going to be audited against this and what will be different.

Angela Connell-Richards: 16:05

It was interesting. Lauren and I, at the last VELG conference, actually spoke to some of the auditors the auditors and they didn't know what the hell they were going to interpret it because they had actually the people that we spoke to said it's so ambiguous, all of the standards, they don't know how they're going to be auditing against them, particularly so a lot of the changes in the standards was to break it down for big and small RTOs. So it's ambiguous because of that, because it's going to be different for a different size RTO. So, yeah, it's going to be interesting. I think it's going to be more of an onus on the trainer and assessor to be taking into consideration what are the rules of evidence and principal assessment, not just on the RTO. I think it's the trainers really thinking about how am I applying the rules of evidence and principal assessment whilst I'm delivering my training? It's going to be instead of just validation, we're validating and we're integrating. It should be in their day-to-day delivery of their training and assessment. How am I applying this?

Lauren Hollows: 17:20

I think that's going to take us brilliantly into our next question. Guys, you'll be able to see that video out in just a couple of days. We hope that you enjoyed this one. Also, make sure that you check out our first video on Standard 1.3. Again, I am lucky enough to be here with Angela from Vivacity and Maree from Compliance Assist, and you can find all of their details, including being able to follow them on their socials, just below. Guys, we will be back in us just a few minutes for you, guys in three or four days. My name is Lauren Hollows Aniwaya Education Services.